08
10
2008
Session 8: Marks of a False Church and the Government of the Church
Posted by: carrie in Fall 2008Fall 2007 Online Certificate Students:
View all sessions below. Then log all your comments, questions, discussion question answers, criticisms, or thoughts below.
NOTE: This is not the place for general discussion and questions. Go to the foyer for general discussion and refer to the FAQ on the right for question. Time spent in the comments section will apply toward your one hour of community time per week. To download audio sessions, visit the course homepage on the TTP site. The next session will be posted each Wed.
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What are the marks of a false church? [16:24m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download What are the marks of a false church? [14:32m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download What are different models of church government? [15:28m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download How should the church organize its government? Part 1 [14:19m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download How should the church organize its government? Part 2 [12:41m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download
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October 13th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
1. Radical Exclusive churches believe that salvation and/or sanctification is found only when one adheres to the particular beliefs and practices of their church. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
Many times. As a child, our next door neighbor believed that only those who were baptized in their church would inherit eternal life. She would pray and cry for the salvation of our family, especially for my mother who was a ministers wife, taught Sunday School,, and headed the missions program.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
I’m having trouble with the label. I believe they are incorrect doctrinally, but they preach the Gospel (they just add to it). I would be more comfortable saying they were/are an incorrect church.
2. Radical Inclusive churches do not have any dogmatic beliefs about any essential doctrine at all, but are ultimately open to all beliefs, creeds, and lifestyles, even though the church itself may find its values through orthodox Christian beliefs. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
Yes. I have several friends who attend a church of this type. They tolerate everything except those things/beliefs they would hold to be intolerant.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
If we are a Kononia, around what do we base our fellowship? If it is in no way exclusive, then it would not fit the New Testament model of a “called out” assembly. Eph. 1:1 - “To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus.”
3. Heterodoxism is found in churches that deny essential Christian doctrine. Most common among these churches is the denial of the sinfulness of man, salvation by faith alone, the inspiration of Scripture, the doctrine of the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the exclusivity of Christ, and the need to live a holy life. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
Yes
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
If there is no agreement on the essentials for salvation, then what makes that assembly a Christian church? They are no more a true church than is our local P.T.A. or Rotary Club. If I deny what makes us Christian, then why would I even want to consider myself a Christian church?
4. Radical Imbalance is found in churches that emphasis one ministry to the neglect of the others. When this is done, the local gathering is no longer a legitimate local church, but a misleading ministry. At best, these types of churches are parachurch ministries. Review the charts of imbalance. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
Perhaps some Bible churches fit the model on slide 344. Charasmatic churches run the risk of modeling slide 343. I grew up in a church that might be described as similar to slide 345. I’m not sure perfect balance is achieved in any church. There is need for Bible study in the church built on extravagant worship or it does become a mile wide and an inch deep. There is need for Bible churches to fellowship, engage in missions, and have authentic worship. There is also a need for the evangelistic church to grow/disciple those reached; not just train them to reach more, but to instruct in the fundamentals of the faith.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
Again, I have difficulty labeling these churches as false. In their core doctrines, they are on target. If they preach “Christ and Him crucified” why would I consider them to be false?
5. Explain the advantages and disadvantages of having an authoritative governmental head beyond the local authority in the local church.
I will lean heavy on the disadvantages. We are a church plant. We worked in cooperation with our denomination, but never did they exercise authority over us. This enabled us to pursue the call we had discerned from God with no need to jump through hoops to get the work accomplished. They have been excellent resources of advice and counsel, but the vision for this church is different from others in our association.
6. What are the advantages and disadvantages of having the church governmental authority reside in local congregations?
There are disadvantages. Sometimes pastors become too powerful and exercise excessive authority. This leads to temptations which often crash churches where there is no authority that demands pastoral accountability. Local congregations cannot abrogate their responsibilities of oversight and administrations. If there is no external supervision, internal supervision is an absolute necessity.
7. If the American governmental system was a church, which church governmental system does it resemble most?
I’d day the Presbyterian. There is an authority at the top, but it is elected by the individuals in local assemblies. Perhaps since our government seems dysfunctional, those who use the Presbyterian system will reevaluate its potential dangers.
Which of the arguments for church government did you find most persuasive? Why?
I’m not certain the arguments for any one model are that much more persuasive than all the others. I am quite comfortable in the Congregationalist form. We have added to the traditional Baptist polity our own idea of Elders, which we view as consistent with the New Testament. They don’t rule the congregation, but provide wisdom and counsel. When they speak, their words are respected; and, they are excellent in providing accountability for the staff.
9. How was your thinking challenged the most by the lesson? Explain.
I’m having difficulty classifying any church as false if they teach the centrality of the cross, the resurrection, the necessity for repentance from sin, and other essentials of the faith. For me, it is too hard a statement!
October 23rd, 2008 at 11:21 am
1. Radical Exclusive churches believe that salvation and/or sanctification is found only when one adheres to the particular beliefs and practices of their church. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
I grew up in the Roman Catholic church which claims to be the one true church.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
The class lecture taught that any church that makes a claim to be the “one true church” denies the existence of the invisible Body of Christ, from which individual churches are a local expression. Still, in some sense all churches would have to be exclusive if they truly believed what they stand for. So, if the Roman Catholic church believes in their doctrines of salvation and sanctification it is not surprising that they would consider other views to represent a “false” church.
2. Radical Inclusive churches do not have any dogmatic beliefs about any essential doctrine at all, but are ultimately open to all beliefs, creeds, and lifestyles, even though the church itself may find its values through orthodox Christian beliefs. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
No.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
To me, this sort of church would seem to be more “false” than the radically exclusive church because a radical inclusiveness means you stand for nothing. If we say a church is defined by the orthodox beliefs of what the Body of Christ is, we are saying you must believe something. A radically exclusive church at least makes a stand on some principle, while a radically inclusive church has no foundational beliefs to stand on.
3. Heterodoxism is found in churches that deny essential Christian doctrine. Most common among these churches is the denial of the sinfulness of man, salvation by faith alone, the inspiration of Scripture, the doctrine of the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the exclusivity of Christ, and the need to live a holy life. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
While I was a member of the Roman Catholic church they did not teach the doctrine of salvation by faith alone which, according to this question, would put them in the heterodox category.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
Denial of orthodox beliefs would, by definition, make you a false church. The tricky part here would be defining “orthodox” belief. The Roman Catholic church would be able to argue for their “orthodox” doctrine of salvation and would consider reformed churches to be in the heterodox category.
4. Radical Imbalance is found in churches that emphasis one ministry to the neglect of the others. When this is done, the local gathering is no longer a legitimate local church, but a misleading ministry. At best, these types of churches are parachurch ministries. Review the charts of imbalance. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
I don’t think the churches I’ve been a member of were perfect examples of this category, but in each church there was a tendency to lean toward either a country club, praise & worship or bible imbalance.
Why do you think they would be labeled a false church?
Going back to a church being defined by the orthodox beliefs of what the Body of Christ is and the ministries and sacraments that support the body, it is clear that a church which neglects one of the sacraments or doesn’t offer a full compliment of ministries may be a fruitful ministry but probably is not really a church.
5. Explain the advantages and disadvantages of having an authoritative governmental head beyond the local authority in the local church.
- If you don’t have authority over the local church there is a tendency for heresies to develop and persist unchecked.
- Without an over-arching authority, unity among the local churches will be hard to establish.
- Without authority beyond the local church, membership and discipline lose value in that members simply “go next door” to a church in which they have not been disciplined.
- The disadvantage of an authority over the local church is that heresies established at the top of the authority structure can get passed down through the system to the local church.
6. What are the advantages and disadvantages of having the church governmental authority reside in local congregations?
The advantages:
- Christ centeredness, looking to Christ for authority prevents individuals from being corrupted by power.
- All believers have a senses of involvement in the Body of Christ.
The disadvantages:
- Not all people have leadership ability but they may need to participate in leadership.
- If all people have equal authority, indecisiveness and division can dominate.
- Lack of unity with the larger Body of Christ…isolationism.
7. If the American governmental system was a church, which church governmental system does it resemble most?
The Presbyterian system most resembles the representative democracy of the United States. In a Presbyterian system the members of a local congregation elect elders to represent them and make decisions for them in session and assembly meetings. This is very similar to people electing representatives and senators to serve in congress.
8. Which of the arguments for church government did you find most persuasive? Why?
I find the Presbyterian form of church government most persuasive because it follows biblical examples we see in Acts 6, 14 and 15. It involves the members in the election of the elders and it does a good job of preserving unity and purity of doctrine through the leadership of the regional and denominational authority.
9. How was your thinking challenged the most by the lesson?
It is tricky to define a church as “false” based on differences of opinion regarding what is orthodox belief. As a member of a church with reformed theology, salvation by faith alone is critical and anything that strays from that would seem false to me. However, I have heard Catholic theologians make good arguments for their position and I would be reluctant to use the term “false” for their church.
October 23rd, 2008 at 2:39 pm
1. Radical Exclusive churches believe that salvation and/or sanctification is found only when one adheres to the particular beliefs and practices of their church. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
Personally, I have not. Although I know many people and congregations in this area that do claim this. Certain Church of Christ, Baptist and other denominations in this area would claim that you need to be a member of their particular church in order to be saved.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
Since they claim that you need to be a member of their church to be saved, this contradicts orthodoxy and neglects to recognize the invisible church.
2. Radical Inclusive churches do not have any dogmatic beliefs about any essential doctrine at all, but are ultimately open to all beliefs, creeds, and lifestyles, even though the church itself may find its values through orthodox Christian beliefs. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
Not to my knowledge.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
This view contradicts orthodoxy by allowing another path to God and salvation other than Jesus Christ.
3. Heterodoxism is found in churches that deny essential Christian doctrine. Most common among these churches is the denial of the sinfulness of man, salvation by faith alone, the inspiration of Scripture, the doctrine of the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the exclusivity of Christ, and the need to live a holy life. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
Not to my knowledge.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
I did recently go to a Methodist church whose motto was “open hearts, open doors and open minds” and had several women pastors. I’m not sure how open they are in particular, but it seems like they are rather accepting. I think this is a type of church that is becoming more culturally acceptable whereas exclusive churches seem to be going out, but that’s just my personal observation.
4. Radical Imbalance is found in churches that emphasis one ministry to the neglect of the others. When this is done, the local gathering is no longer a legitimate local church, but a misleading ministry. At best, these types of churches are parachurch ministries. Review the charts of imbalance. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
Not to my knowledge.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
In this case, these churches emphasize one thing above all others and lose sight of the other, just as criticial functions of the church. Mission churches or outreach churches or social justice churches fall into this category.
5. Explain the advantages and disadvantages of having an authoritative governmental head beyond the local authority in the local church.
The main advantage I see in an authoritative governmental head is unity in purpose, practice and doctrine. With a universal authority, church policy and positions should be clear and the body unified. However, this can lead to great corruption, if the authoritative governmental head is sanctioning heresy, than that heresy will corrupt and ruin the collective body in that church.
6. What are the advantages and disadvantages of having the church governmental authority reside in local congregations?
The main advantage of local governmental authority is the understanding of and the participation of most of the body in that local congregation. Like minded folks will usually congregate together. However, if the local authority is lacking understanding of certain theological issues, this could lead to heresy as well. Isolationism and lack of leadership can also affect how the local body deals with issues.
7. If the American governmental system was a church, which church governmental system does it resemble most?
In my opinion, the American government would be a local authority church. In theory, the people here have the deciding vote to elect representatives. These representatives get together and decide policy. This resembles the Baptist model to me more, because in our federal system, we do not have regional authority anymore in terms of election of representatives, they just go straight to the governing authority.
8. Which of the arguments for church government did you find most persuasive? Why?
The churches that I feel have enjoyed the best leadership and accountability in congregations I have been involved with use the congregational, local authority model. Congregations that have elders who represent that body and shepherd that body have been a blessing in my life. The main disadvantage is the lack of global unity with other congregations, but I have not witnessed this to be a major disadvantage.
9. How was your thinking challenged the most by the lesson?
I’m struggling with labeling congregations that I have friends attend, who I know are believers, a false church. Why would a believer attend a false church? Can a believer attend a false church. Ultimately, our salvation doesn’t rest on our church affiliation but on the person of Jesus Christ!
October 28th, 2008 at 6:43 am
Discussion Questions 8
1. Radical Exclusive churches believe that salvation and/or sanctification is found only when one adheres to the particular beliefs and practices of their church. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
I was raised in a denomination that was this type of church and was later briefly a member of a different church which was also radically exclusive.
Why do you think they would be labeled a false church?
Both groups believe themselves to be the only true church and that salvation is to be found only by following their doctrines and submitting to their authority. A major reason that I would label them false churches is that their doctrines of salvation are works based and therefore unbiblical.
2. Radical Inclusive churches do not have any dogmatic beliefs about any essential doctrine at all, but are ultimately open to all beliefs, creeds, and lifestyles, even though the church itself may find its values through orthodox Christian beliefs. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
I have not had any significant contact with churches such as these.
Why do you think they would be labeled a false church?
A good example would be if inclusiveness in such a church is carried to the point where Scriptural truth is compromised for the sake of unity or other things, they could justifiably be called a false church.
3. Heterodoxism is found in churches that deny essential Christian doctrine. Most common among these churches is the denial of the sinfulness of man, salvation by faith alone, the inspiration of Scripture, the doctrine of the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the exclusivity of Christ, and the need to live a holy life. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
Heterodoxism is another feature of the churches I mentioned in question one above.
Why do you think they would be labeled a false church?
The denial of the essentials for salvation such as these results in several types of “a different gospel” described by the Apostle Paul in Galatians 1:6-9. These are nothing but perversions of the true gospel. As such, churches holding such doctrines are false churches.
4. Radical Imbalance is found in churches that emphasis one ministry to the neglect of the others. When this is done, the local gathering is no longer a legitimate local church, but a misleading ministry. At best, these types of churches are parachurch ministries. Review the charts of imbalance. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
Although Baptist churches I have been a member of were imbalanced in some ways or others, they were not radically imbalanced.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
I would be hesitant in labeling a church a false one when it teaches what is essential for salvation and orthodoxy even though they may be very imbalanced in what they emphasize in ministry.
5. Explain the advantages and disadvantages of having an authoritative governmental head beyond the local authority in the local church.
Advantages: a ruling authority could help ensure correctness of doctrine in the churches governed. Also unity of effort would be helpful in mission work. A major disadvantage would be that error, finding its way into the church government, would tend to be imposed on those under their rule. Another disadvantage would be that leaders could become less accountable to their congregations.
6. What are the advantages and disadvantages of having the church governmental authority reside in local congregations?
Advantages would be that this method allows for a more democratic system, where leaders are more accountable and concerns are dealt with more efficiently not having to appeal to leaders somewhat removed from local situations. A disadvantage could be a possible lack of coordination with other like minded churches in mission efforts.
7. If the American governmental system was a church, which church governmental system does it resemble most?
As originally designed, I think our government was meant to be fairly “Presbyterian”. Examples of this are that members of the Senate were for a time chosen by state legislatures until ratification of the Seventeenth Amendment in 1913 and the Electoral College method of electing the President. It seems to me that recently, the government is becoming increasingly “Episcopalian” while outwardly retaining the “Presbyterian” form. In other words, my opinion is that our federal government is increasingly gaining power over our lives and is becoming in practice less and less accountable to its citizens.
8. Which of the arguments for church government did you find most persuasive? Why?
I find most persuasive to me the argument that the congregational form of church government “provides the ideal system of checks and balances” against the tendency toward corruption of individuals who would be leaders Also, “Congregational” type churches have often tended to resist heresy more effectively whereas “Episcopal” and “Presbyterian” type denominations have suffered more in this area.
9. How was your thinking challenged the most by the lesson?
I was challenged in that I found that there are good reasons for “Episcopal” and “Presbyterian” forms of church government, if done in tune with Scripture. Also the “Congregational” type is no guarantee of orthodoxy. What is needed in whatever type of church government exists are good, honest people who properly “divide the Word of Truth”.
October 30th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
EE -Week 8 – Group Discussion Questions;
1. Radical Exclusive churches believe that salvation and/or sanctification is found only when one adheres to the particular beliefs and practices of their church.
Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
– My wife grew up Catholic. We were married way before I became a believer by a justice of the peace. Years later after I accepted Jesus into my heart, I went a few times with her to church.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
– Her cousin became a Catholic priest… and even though I was taking communion in the Lutheran church we were members of, when we visited her cousin’s church…he told me he would not give me communion. What part of “Do this in remembrance of Me” was I not allowed to do?
2. Radical Inclusive churches do not have any dogmatic beliefs about any essential doctrine at all, but are ultimately open to all beliefs, creeds, and lifestyles, even though the church itself may find its values through orthodox Christian beliefs.
Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
– I personally have not, but my mother and step father for many years went to Glide Memorial Church near the Haight-Ashbury district in San Francisco. They were open to all beliefs, lifestyles, abuses.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
¬– They stood for love… but had no biblical foundation. Love and caring is awesome, it doesn’t require a church or God.
3. Heterodoxism is found in churches that deny essential Christian doctrine. Most common among these churches is the denial of the sinfulness of man, salvation by faith alone, the inspiration of Scripture, the doctrine of the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the exclusivity of Christ, and the need to live a holy life.
Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
– No
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
– What’s the point of having a “Christian” church if they don’t believe Christ is God? ¬
4. Radical Imbalance is found in churches that emphasis one ministry to the neglect of the others. When this is done, the local gathering is no longer a legitimate local church, but a misleading ministry. At best, these types of churches are parachurch ministries.
Review the charts of imbalance. Have you ever been in contact with this type of church?
–I can’t say that I have ever been associated or visited a church of this nature.
Why do you think that they would be labeled a false church?
–I would say that since they are only leaning on one ministry, then they are misleading as a church because according to the chart of importance with the purpose and nature of the church as we learned in the earlier weeks they leave out so many necessary roles of the church.
5. Explain the advantages and disadvantages of having an authoritative governmental head beyond the local authority in the local church.
– An advantage of an authoritative head beyond the local church could be to make sure that denominational structure is adhered to. Also it provides a checks and balance system if the local authority is having problems beyond their control. A disadvantage would be not allowing the God given vision to a local pastor be carried out if the authorities didn’t agree.
6. What are the advantages and disadvantages of having the church governmental authority reside in local congregations?
– If a local church has a well structured government in place all should run smoothly… but when it doesn’t and control cannot be regained, a local church can die a quick death.
7. If the American governmental system was a church, which church governmental system does it resemble most?
–I see where it started out as a Presbyterian system, by the people for the people… but it has turned into an Episcopal system run by the leaders with little say by the people.
8. Which of the arguments for church government did you find most persuasive? Why?
–I think a mixture of Congregational and Presbyterian is a good mix. Our church elders are the pastors forming a Core team then an Elder team. They oversee themselves. We then have directors and lay ministers. Everyone is allowed to review and ask questions at any time. No one way street from the top down or vice versa.
9. How was your thinking challenged the most by the lesson? Explain.
– Luckily I did not have much trouble with this chapter.